Normally language humour is when the learner tells stories of silly mistakes they have made. Well the reverse happened in class yesterday, but I desisted from arguing too strongly with the teacher. When referring to in-laws in Russian there are words allocated in the language but they do not seem to be used very much in common speech these days. My sister is married to a Russian, and so I long ago learned the word to refer to Nickolai.
The word is зяать (zyat'). It actually is a word that all people within the brides immediate family use to refer to the groom after the wedding. Most Russians would simply refer to such a person as the "husband of my sister" or "the husband of my daughter," but early on this word became part of my vocabulary and it has stuck. Most times people have seemed to understand me when I use the word. When I used the word in class yesterday the teacher tried to correct me. She insisted that it was only to be used by the parents to refer to the son-in-law. Just in case you think that maybe I am wrong after all, I have a chart in a text book that I used at my previous language school, that defends me, as does the Oxford Russian-English dictionary.
The teacher insisted that I use the word деверь (dever'), which actually refers to the "husband's brother", a different kind of brother in law. I knew she was wrong, but decided not to argue any further, so as to not embarrass her. It's a good thing to know when one has actually learnt something in the language.
The second example was quite humorous for me. I had a good laugh after class as I told people this. As I was talking with my teacher in class I used the word кушать (kushat'), the verb for "to eat". The teacher stopped me and said "never use that word, it is wrong." Thus ensued a conversation about right and wrong in language. I explained that I have done a linguistics degree and I was taught to observe language and never call something right or wrong. I also conceded that I would use the more formal verb есть (est') in her classes. I don't usually like the verb есть because it also means "to have", and is irregular in its conjugation. The teacher admitted that "80% of people use the verb кушать in daily life". So I see no reason why I should stop using this very common verb. It's just going to be a pain to have to adjust my speech for this particular teacher, when previous teachers have never asked me to do so.
I had to have a good laugh, because her request was actually kind of ludicrous, that such a common word is "wrong." But I don't think I will stop using the word зяать.
Have I completely lost you?
I'm still hoping to find out how to get involved in some sporting activities so I can have a chance to make friends, hopefully some indigenous students. I don't really have a clue where to start at the moment, hopefully I'll get it worked out. Sorry I don't have any more photos to show you at the moment.
12 comments:
Sounds to me like this is just a bit of an old-fashioned Russian teacher who is very used to doing things correctly and being right. That's okay, at least she has standards and is strict about them. As a teacher myself, be careful not to make her feel foolish or inadequate in front of the class. It's much better to have a teacher on your side rather than in opposition to you. Some of the best teachers I've ever had, who were also some of the strictest and most hardest to please, were Russian teachers. Happy studying...I'm a bit jealous really...
Funny, because she is certainly not old, probably mid 30's. Still, it makes perfect sense if you think about how the Russian education system works.
The class was one on one, so there was not any danger there, but I chose to desist, and let her be right, even though....
OK, I'm going to take on your contention that there is never right or wrong in language. I disagree; I hear/read people use the wrong word all the time. For instance, people often confuse "compliment" and "complement." Another one I've heard several times is "garnish" when they mean "garnishee" (as in wages). I heard it on the radio yesterday in an advertisement! I agree that language changes, and that words take on new meanings over time and through common usage. However, if a child were to say "mama" when referring to his father, he would simply be wrong! The above examples are more subtle, but they are just as wrong!
I have no problem with slang; that is just new words entering the vocabulary. But I do have a problem with people speaking improperly. One you often hear in Canada goes something like this: "Her and her sister are going shopping." This should be, "She and her sister are going shopping." Drives me nuts! I don't want to hear that this is just the language changing; yes, it's changing, but with sentences like that, "deteriorating" would be a better word.
Dad, we really should have a good long debate about this some time. You have some points, but I would love to go into it in more detail. You are right that people can be wrong sometimes, but you have to draw the line some where.
There is still a big place for observing the way language is used.
If language was constantly deteriorating, then wouldn't we just become speechless?
I think what you are searching for in your argument, is the fact that there are different "registers" (i.e forms or modes) of language for different situations. So you therefore have the right to say that a particular usage is "wrong" in a particular register, but never across the board. If you are not speaking in their register then you are "wrong" in the perspective of some one else.
Anyway, perhaps I should sit down and right an essay for you, to go into more depth?
A small example (even though not a verb); it would be like if a second language student used the word "tucker" for food, and I told them, "sorry that is wrong, you can never use 'tucker'." A better response would be, "there are only certain situations where it is appropriate to use 'tucker' and others where it is more appropriate to use 'food'."
As a result of her methods, I have not actually learned anything, except that she is closed minded.
I must say I'm with you on this one Paul, however I wouldn't necessarily use words like 'old-fashioned' or 'closed minded' re the teacher.
I think she suffers from a condition that many non-linguists do - namely 'prescriptivism'. Language is a beautiful evolving thing and the descriptive linguist will see it just as that. The prescriptivist, or pedant if you like, says things 'should' be a certain way.
I think I fall somewhere in between. I believe there is a place for 'standard' and 'non-standard' language usage (and you are completely right about the difference between registers), and while it drives me nuts that many people have a tenuous grasp of grammar at best, I have to allow myself to limit my frustration.
Martin is right that his examples are unacceptable - in a formally edited text, but they are commmonplace in the vernacular, and that's ok. In fact, the vernacular has always been wildly different to the written language, but we tend to just have written examples of historical texts.
I can't stand things like 'a myriad of' when it should be 'myriad' or 'comprises of' when the correct use is 'comprises', however I accept that any jumping up and down I do will be useless unless I am editing a reasonably formal text - hence register as you mentioned.
Your teacher is just one of those who prides herself in the beauty of her language, but can't release herself to the knowledge that language is fluid.
My daughter sometimes gets frustrated when I correct her spelling. She has commented that, "it doesn't matter if you understand what I want to say". I argued that it did matter, and I felt my point had been illustrated when she googled something and couldn't find it due to incorrect spelling. HOWEVER, I have noticed how much better google is getting at anticipating what you really wanted to say even if you mistype it... So perhaps this is yet another example of evolutionary language and we may yet go back to the idiosyncratic spelling of Shakespeare's day!
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Ok, so I'm waxing lyrical about a topic close to my heart...
Another topic for another day is how frustrated I get by people thinking they do not speak 'properly' when they speak a non-standard dialect or creole
Thanks Lisette (who is currently an even more qualified Linguist than myself).
I said "closed minded" because the teacher did not know how wrong she was about the use of зяать (zyat'). I let it go, but I guess I find it hard to respect a teacher when they will not even entertain the thought they could be wrong. Another one of my teachers was humble enough to admit she did not know the answer to a different question and said she would come back to me with the answer later.
The first teacher mentioned, is still nice. But today I had to tell her not to speak to me in English. So we will see how things go.
all the best. I admire your patience - I know it must be extremely frustrating!!
My biggest complaint is poor spellers. But that is because when I was in primary school we had a very strict teacher who strapped us once on each hand for each spelling mistake. That was until my sister made one and told Mom. My Mom having been a teacher when she was single accosted the teacher telling her she couldn't put knowledge into a child's head through their hands. Mysteriously that teacher didn't come to school anymore I think she was moved immediately. But I had suffered without complaint for weeks before my sister had made a mistake.
how in the world did my comment get posted twice and why can't I delete one of them? It makes me look like an old woman that doesn't know what I'm doing and I suppose that could be accurate here, since by your standards I'm old since I'm Mel's grandma but I wish I knew what I was doing I don't like to make mistakes that are so glaring.
I got smart and saw the little waste bin and figured it was for garbage.Not so dumb after all.
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